Newsgroups: misc.forsale,misc.forsale.computers.d,misc.forsale.computers.mac,misc.forsale.computers.other,misc.forsale.computers.pc-clone,misc.forsale.computers.workstation,misc.answers,news.answers Path: bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.media.mit.edu!uhog.mit.edu!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!eff!news.umbc.edu!haven.umd.edu!ames!purdue!mozo.cc.purdue.edu!sage.cc.purdue.edu!kingd From: dking@cn.ecn.purdue.edu (Daniel King) Subject: <<>> Read me 1st! Summary: This posting describes proper usage of the misc.forsale and misc.forsale.computers.* groups, including descriptions of what is appropriate where, and brief instructions on selling to individuals by mail. Commercial and entrepreneurial ads are NOT permitted in misc.forsale. Originator: kingd@sage.cc.purdue.edu Sender: news@mozo.cc.purdue.edu (USENET News) Message-ID: Supersedes: Approved: news-answers-request@MIT.Edu Date: Mon, 9 May 1994 08:03:05 GMT Expires: Thu, 26 May 1994 08:03:03 GMT Reply-To: dking@cn.ecn.purdue.edu Organization: Purdue Data Network Followup-To: poster Lines: 263 Xref: bloom-beacon.mit.edu misc.forsale:61957 misc.forsale.computers.d:4559 misc.forsale.computers.mac:25281 misc.forsale.computers.other:32222 misc.forsale.computers.pc-clone:49602 misc.forsale.computers.workstation:8863 misc.answers:593 news.answers:19323 Archive-name: misc-forsale-faq Posting-Frequency: every 4 days Last-modified: 1994/05/03 Version: 2.12 Major-Changes: Restricting article distribution MISC.FORSALE.*.FAQ maintained by Daniel King (dking@cn.ecn.purdue.edu) I welcome your suggestions/comments/flames ----------------------------------------------------------- Contents: I. Welcome to the misc.forsale hierarchy. II. Purpose of the misc.forsale groups. III. What is appropriate to post, what isn't? IV. How to Buy/Sell off the Usenet ---------------------------------------------------------- Before posting to the Usenet, you should read the articles in news.announce.newusers, as well as the FAQ for the groups in question. This will save you, and everyone else, a lot of hassle. I. Welcome to the misc.forsale hierarchy! Allow me to be the first to welcome you to the Usenet Marketplace, where anything and everything changes hands at better-than-average prices. Many, many satisfied computer-users have walked away from here knowing they got the best deal available on everything from computer accessories to sailboards, houses, and rollerblades. Please feel free to use the Usenet Marketplace to your advantage, and read on to find out how. II. Purpose of misc.forsale.*. In the misc.forsale hierarchy, you will find 6 newsgroups, each tailored to a specific market. Please post to as few groups as possible, and only to APPROPRIATE groups. Be aware that commercial and entrepreneurial ads are NOT appropriate in any of these groups, except in certain computer groups as described later. Commercial ads may be posted in the biz.* hierarchy available at some sites, or in certain other cases outlined in specific groups' FAQs. misc.forsale Individual-to-individual sales of non-computer items ONLY (i.e., sporting goods, garage sale announcements, houses, furniture,...) Non-computer WANTED ads, if "WANTED" is in the subject NO DISCUSSION (discussion goes in m.fs.c.d) misc.forsale.computers.mac Macintosh computers, hardware, and software, Mac-compatible PowerPC misc.forsale.computers.pc-clone IBM-Compatible computers, hardware, and software (i.e. Motherboards, hard drives, games, monitors, scanners, modems, complete systems, memory, DOS-based workstations, 80x86 chips, pentiums, DOS-compatible PowerPC,...) misc.forsale.computers.workstation Workstations, software, and related hardware (i.e. HW/SW for HP Workstations and others, 1 gig hard drives, networking peripherals, very-high-powered stuff,...) misc.forsale.computers.other Anything computer related which doesn't fit in one of the other categories, and cross- platform hardware. (i.e. Lisa ;-), Commodore 64, hard drives, printers, 8-bit simms,...) misc.forsale.computers.d Any and all discussion about misc.forsale.* Debates like "What is a workstation?" (i.e. "Don't Buy From Him...", questions about buying/selling on the Usenet, questions about buying/selling computers in general,...) NO WANTED or FORSALE ads, please. In addition to these, several other groups exist which are tailored to more specific items, as follows: rec.autos.marketplace Motor vehicles rec.collecting.comics.marketplace Comic books rec.games.board.marketplace Board games comp.sys.next.marketplace NEXT equipment and compatibles comp.sys.sun.wanted SUN Microsystems equipment and compatibles comp.sys.apple2.marketplace Apple II equipment comp.sys.amiga.marketplace Amiga equipment and compatibles III. What is appropriate to post? Before posting to *any* newsgroup, you should read the articles in news.announce.newusers. These articles provide much insight into the niceties of newsgroups, including appropriate netiquette when posting. COMMERCIAL and ENTREPRENEURIAL advertisements are a STRICT NO-NO. One small exception does exist to this rule: Occasionally, computer dealers are able to make a special offering not normally available to the public. ONLY IF the price of your computer-related item is SIGNIFICANTLY LOWER than the BEST PUBLISHED PRICE in all national computer magazines like Computer Shopper may you post your ad. Many computer dealers occasionally offer surplus or refurbished factory goods at excellent prices. These ads are welcomed IN THE APPROPRIATE GROUPS ONLY. NO OTHER COMMERCIAL POSTS SHOULD BE POSTED TO MISC.FORSALE.* (That means no books, no tungsten, no phone companies, nothing.) Recommendations for certain companies are welcomed in some groups, but are NOT welcome in misc.forsale. If someone solicits one, please respond by E-MAIL only. Chain letters like MAKE.MONEY.FAST are not permitted, and will cause you to lose your account at many sites. Please keep this in mind before wasting already-tight network resources. In the misc.forsale.* newsgroups, a good rule of thumb is to follow the purpose of the group to which you post. If you have a hard drive for sale, you can cross-post it to a few of the misc.forsale.computers.* groups as appropriate, but NOT to misc.forsale. If you have a 386DX system for sale, you should only post it to misc.forsale.computers.pc-clone. In general, avoid posting to multiple newsgroups whenever possible. Also, please limit the distribution of your article whenever possible. If you are selling something in the U.S., and don't plan on shipping it to Myanmar, then use a distribution of usa. If it's a house, or maybe an automobile or anything too large to ship, then restrict distribution to your state (use the postal abbreviation: ca, in, il, oh,...), or even your city/school. This will send your article to a handful of sites in the local area, rather than hundreds of sites worldwide, and will save a LOT of memory. PLEASE--keep responses to others' ads to a minimum. If someone offers something at a good price, and you MUST respond that you know where there's better, then BE SURE to include the following info: (KEEP IT SHORT) The advertised price The company selling it An address/phone # to order the item Wanted articles are permitted on misc.forsale.*, but PLEASE put "WANTED" in your title, as well as the item desired. If you're not certain if you should post or not, then please ask first. I'd be more than happy to answer your questions, just e-mail Dan King, dking@cn.ecn.purdue.edu IV. How to buy/sell on the Usenet If you've satisfied the above requirements, then you're ready to post your item for sale. Please post your ad with an appropriate title, like "Household items for sale" if you're vaccuums, pots, and furntiure, or "204 meg Hard Drive for sale" if you're selling a hard drive. Be as SPECIFIC yet concise as you can in the subject. In the body of your ad, be sure to include the following: Asking price (or say "best offer takes it") Your true name and e-mail address A complete description of the item --technical details are good Will you warrant the item? (Standard is guaranteed to work on arrival) Who pays for shipping? What city are you near? (Particularly w/large & heavy items) (restrict your article's distribution if it would be impossible to ship the item) If you're selling multiple items, try to group them into different articles as appropriate. Specifically, don't mix hard drives, a surfboard, and a Sun Workstation in one article which you post to 4 newsgroups. Break it into 3 separate articles and post each appropriately. On the other hand, don't advertise an SVGA monitor, 1megx9 Simms, and a 486 motherboard in separate articles--this only wastes everyone's time. ONCE SOLD, PLEASE CANCEL YOUR ARTICLE. At most sites this can be done by pressing a capital C when you go back and reread your article. Some sites, however, work differently. Please find out how to cancel articles on your site *BEFORE* you post. O.k., now you're looking to buy something off the Usenet. How do you complete the purchase? There are, in effect, 2 ways commonly used, and a third method for very expensive items: Method 1: COD -- Reccommended The seller ships the item COD to the buyer, who pays for it on arrival. The extra few bucks are worth the hassle that could arise. When the package arrives, pay by check or cashier's check so that you can stop payment in the unlikely event the sender sent you a very expensive brick, instead of the hard drive you ordered. Unfortunately, with UPS and the USPS, you may not inspect the package contents before paying. Method 2: Payment by check -- Good for small items The buyer sends a check, cashier's check, or money order to the seller, who then sends the item when the check arrives. With big items, the seller may wait a short time for the check to clear. Method 3: For extra protection in the case of extremely expensive items, contact a local lawyer about escrow--he holds your funds until you receive the item. It costs-- about an hour's worth of lawyer's fees-- but it may be worth it for items like high-powered workstations/bulk deals. Paying half in advance, half on arrival is frowned upon. Buying off the Usenet is relatively safe, as many thousands of successful transactions have taken place. However, there have been a small number of incidents of fraud, and, more often, of gross miscommunication. We suggest the following precautions as a guide-- --Keep records of your e-mail, checks, proof-of-mailing --Insure your package adequately --Make sure both of you are ABSOLUTELY clear on the items and arrangements. --Exchange and double-check addresses and phone numbers If the items are terribly expensive, you may wish to have a notarized bill of sale drawn up and/or other legal formalities. Contact your lawyer for more information. If something does go wrong, the best place to start is to contact the other party--via e-mail or telephone. Again, the #1 source of problems is miscommunication. If this doesn't work, however, and the deal appears fraudulent, contact the other person's system administrator by e-mail at 'postmaster@[systemname]'. Often times the threat of losing net access is enough to help the process along. But please do this ONLY when discussions fall through. DISCLAIMER: While rare, occasionally fraud does occur on the Internet. It is ultimately the buyer and/or seller who must take precautions to ensure that he/she is not taken for a ride. Presented here are merely suggestions of means of transaction which worked for others. There is no guarantee that they will work for you.